17 Nov2014
Discovering John Williams: Conversation with Emilio Audissino
Discovering John Williams: Conversation with Emilio Audissino
The author of John Williams’s Film Music talks about his book dedicated to the American film composer.
ColonneSonore.net: Tell us how you came up with the idea to write this book.
Emilio Audissino: It all started with a passion as a fan. My encounter with the music of Williams came when I went to see the film Jurassic Park, now more than twenty years ago. I was struck by the music and the film. After the film ended, I stopped to see the end credits because I wanted to find out who wrote the music. From then, I started collecting soundtracks. Then I studied film in college and decided to specialize in music for film, because I like both cinema and music. I decided to do the master thesis on John Williams, and while preparing and gathering the materials to do my academic study, I realized with amazement that there were no books on the subject, even in English. Over the years nothing appeared. There were only a few thesis here and there, some article ... but it looked like nobody did go out and wrote an actual book on John Williams. So when I was preparing my PhD I said to myself, “Well, let’s try to fill this gap”. So the book is the result of ten years of academic work and the previous ten years of passion as a collector and fan.
CS: So you started readjusting your academic work?
EA: Yes, the challenge was precisely this. I studied music, hence I can read and analyze a score, but I have no "official" qualifications as a musicologist. So I immediately started giving my research a format based on historiography. I was interested in connecting the figure of Williams to Hollywood films. This in my opinion was the key to bring out the book. Unfortunately there are no biographies of Williams because the character is very shy. He does not seem interested in a biography of himself. So writing an official biography without the help of the individual concerned is a rather difficult job. I think this is the reason why he never collaborated on a biography nor has written an autobiography himself. Hollywood composers such as Miklós Rózsa or Henry Mancini, in their old age, have written autobiographies, but Williams does not seem very interested in doing it. So I immediately discarded the option of writing a biography. And since I am not a musicologist, I discarded the option of a purely musicological work as well. From this point of view there is another issue: the original manuscript scores are not available for study, which is necessary if you want to do a thorough job. There is a series of books called Film Score Guide published by Scarecrow Press—150-page books dedicated to thorough and detailed analysis of a film score. There have been a dozen so far (including one on Danny Elfman’s Batman and another one on Ennio Morricone’s The Good, the Bad and the Ugly), but not a single one dedicated to a film score by John Williams. At the time I thought it was because there was still a lack of respect for his music, but when I spoke with the publisher he told me that they would have gladly done a publication on a Williams score, but it wasn’t possible since nobody is given access to his manuscripts. This was also confirmed to me by his assistants. From what I understand, Williams has not had time to organize his archive properly and, before opening the doors to scholars on this material, it is necessary to fix it a little better and catalog it. So you can’t make a thorough musicological study without consulting the original paperwork material. And so, paradoxically, since I am not a musicologist but a film scholar, I was encouraged because I chose a historiographical view on the subject.
CS: So the idea to investigate around the concept on which the book is based (John Williams and the return of the classical Hollywood music style) was a narrowing of the initial target? Or you thought it originally as a larger work?
EA: My idea was that, since there hasn’t been any comprehensive study of Williams’ music yet, it was necessary to start somewhere. Williams is a unique figure because, beyond his music, he played a central role in bringing back a musical era in Hollywood history, namely the so-called "Golden Age", a music style that was considered dead and buried until then. In my opinion, the first stepping stone of the academic study had to focus on Williams as the historical figure of the return of the great Hollywood music style.
CS: In the book you make a distinction between the term “classical” and “neoclassical” in relation to music and Hollywood movies and also to the figure of John Williams. Can you explain further in what sense these terms are meant?
EA: Yes, it’s necessary to explain it a bit better. From the viewpoint of musicology and history of music, neoclassicism means a very different thing. If I’d say to a musicologist that Williams is a neoclassical composer, he obviously would not agree. In music, neoclassical has another meaning—it is a twentieth-century reinterpretation of the music of the 18th century, such as Stravinsky’s “Pulcinella” or Prokofiev's Symphony No. 1. So in the book I immediately clarify that the terms classical and neoclassical are not related to the history of music or to a specific style and language, but rather to the history of Hollywood. According to film historians, the classic period of American cinema is placed between 1917 and 1960. In the book I chose 1933 - the year King Kong was released, a very important film score - as the starting point, and 1958 as the end of it, because that was the year of a big change in Hollywood: studios were no longer obliged to keep a stable orchestra as their employees for union reasons. After that, it fell the obligation, so to speak, to always use a symphony orchestra in every film production and the doors opened to other approaches, be it a piano solo, a jazz band, a chamber orchestra and so on. So with the term “classical” I mean the music of that specific period in Hollywood history, which of course didn’t look at the classical (18th century) period of music history, but rather to Wagner, Puccini, Richard Strauss, and so on. Consequently, I think of Williams as a neoclassical composer because he restored and updated the music style of that period. It’s from this perspective that we should intend the term. I know it can be a bit confusing for musicologists, but I hope that in the book the concept is pretty clear. Using a historiographical look, I tried to frame the specific periods within Hollywood’s film music history: the classical period goes from 1933 to 1958; the "modern" period, i.e. that of Henry Mancini and the explosion of the title-song fad, goes from '58 until the early 1970s; the "neo-classical" period, which sees its greatest exponent in Williams, I framed it between 1975 and 1983. And from then on, there’s what I call the "eclectic" period, which is what we also have today, where we have a mixture and coexistence between different genres and musical styles: symphonic, electronic, pop and so on.
CS: A whole chapter is dedicated to a very detailed analysis of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Why did you choose this score and why do you think it is particularly important in the context of your work?
EA: As for Raiders of the Lost Ark, what interested me was one aspect in particular. Musicologists are dedicated to in-depth analysis of the score more than the film because music is their job, of course. But when film scholars decide to approach the study of music in film, they often dwell on the “big moments". For example, in the case of Ennio Morricone’s scores, it’s very easy to do that because his music is very extroverted and “in your face”, as it happens in the westerns of Sergio Leone—when music comes in, often there are no other sound elements in the scene. Instead of ‘background music’, it would be better to call it ‘foreground music’, we might say. It’s music of sensational bravado, which wants to make its presence felt. Scholars therefore usually analyze the music only in these “big moments" and try to give interpretations of what music is meant to suggest. It’s the notorious dilemma of “musical accompaniment” vs. "musical commentary", an old idea that affirms that music in film is noble only when offering a comment, or when it tells something more than what you see, or when it chooses the path of asynchronism, i.e. when there is a cheerful scene we hear sad music, for example, hence when the music does something unexpected. These are the moments that are usually selected for analysis, while music that goes parallel to the film is usually snubbed or even mocked. In the case of Raiders, the score is predominantly written as musical accompaniment, but it’s done with great refinement and taste. So I wanted to focus on the "mistreated" musical accompaniment, which is also called “Mickey-Mousing” (often in derogatory terms), showing that making good music like this takes a lot of creativity and art.
CS: This is undoubtedly one of the defining traits of Williams’s personality as a composer for the screen. In several interviews, he enhanced the importance of elements such as tempo and rhythm within the musical construction, which help him to find the ideal synthesis that can give music a sense of "inevitability". In this sense, Williams really appears as the heir to a specific school, i.e. the ones who invented this style of writing music for films: Korngold, Steiner, Newman and all the Hollywood composers of the First Generation.
EA: Absolutely. When we talk about Star Wars, for example, everyone is ready to quote the influence of Erich Wolfgang Korngold and the tribute to the swashbuckling scores for the Errol Flynn films, as in the case of Jaws the influence of Bernard Herrmann is always dutifully noted. Raiders of the Lost Ark is instead a great tribute to Max Steiner, in my opinion.
CS: Raiders actually looks like a real "toy box" of collective cinematic memory, not unlike Star Wars. And like Star Wars today, it became something different, a film able to transcend his "neoclassical" nature. Is it so for the music as well, in your opinion?
EA: Yes. Raiders is a nearly perfect, flawless film. And the music "is" Indiana Jones, as much as the shark’s theme "is" Jaws. Indiana Jones’ theme is the perfect musical translation of the character. In the book I make a brief comparison between Luke’s theme from Star Wars and Indy’s theme, trying to demonstrate how Williams set to music two very different types of heroes. Luke’s theme opens with the rising fifth (from C to G), a typical Williams “signature" for a certain kind of heroism (think also about Superman’s march). Indiana Jones’ theme is different. The melody rises but then retreats and when it comes to the finish line we hear intervals of sixth, which sounds almost like a caricature of the hero. So if the theme of Luke is a musical representation of the mythological concept of the “Hero's Journey”, Indiana Jones’ theme is instead the journey of a specific hero. This is an aspect of sophistication which cannot be dismissed with contempt, as sometimes it’s done by some people when it comes to Williams’ music. He often said that he spends a lot of time finding the right theme for the character, comparing the work of the composer to that of the sculptor: the statue is inside the rock in front of you. It’s a work of carve and chisel to get to the end result as we know it.
CS: In the book you talk extensively about critical prejudice that John Williams and his music have suffered over the years. Today fortunately it seems that the trend is changing. Could we say that we’re now fully entering the stage of critical revaluation?
EA: I think so, especially abroad. The Italian academic environment is still a bit fogey. Certainly today film music is fully accepted and studied, but there is still some work to do to overcome the obstacle and give it the proper dignity. Ennio Morricone himself didn’t conduct concerts of film music regularly before 1998, I think. I remember an interview of the early 80s in which he stated that he refused categorically to conduct film music in the concert hall. "The music of the film must remain in the movie”, he said. Then apparently he changed his mind, thankfully! In the late 1970s, Goffredo Petrassi (Morricone’s teacher) argued that there could not be art in film music. So we had some of these prejudices for many years. Williams has been synonymous for a long time of the Hollywood industry and this was always seen with a certain ideological bias in many cultural and critical environments, as if the music of Star Wars was the march of American imperialism to conquer the world. Gradually, however, the music of Williams is entering into the repertoire of symphony orchestras in Italy as well, but this though raises another problem: how is it performed? In my opinion when you agree to let film music in the concert hall, you must treat it with dignity. For example, I happened to attend a symphony concert featuring music by John Williams and I noticed the harp was absent. This instrument is present in all his scores. In its place it was used a synthesizer, which also played the piano and celesta parts. Would they dare to perform a piece by Ravel with the keyboard instead of the harp, I wonder? Film music is a repertoire with its own dignity and it should be played with respect, otherwise it’s better not to do it at all. The masterpieces of film music require good musicians to be performed as they should.
CS: It was amazing to read the article written by the Los Angeles Times music critic- usually always very critical and severe in regard to Williams and his music - on the occasion of the concert conducted by Gustavo Dudamel last October and seeing that his figure is being completely legitimized. It says that "no composer in music history has infused so much symphonic joy to young generations". It’s precisely for this reason that we ask ourselves if we are actually entered a phase of general revaluation.
EA: That's very true. Another problem in Italy is perhaps the absence of Pops concerts, as those in the United States, or the BBC Proms in England. There is still the idea of classical symphony concerts attended by an audience of elders, while young people instead go to the big arenas to hear rock music concerts, so classical music is considered old and boring. Concerts of light symphonic music, i.e.“Pops”, have been essential in America and England to make these two environments communicate. The Boston Pops Orchestra - which Williams served for 15 years as Principal Conductor - is formed by the same musicians of the Boston Symphony Orchestra, one of the world's major orchestras. Orchestras such as the London Symphony, the BBC Concert Orchestra and the Royal Philharmonic usually perform at the BBC Proms with programs that include often quite a lot of film music. You can see many kids in the audience attending Boston Pops concerts, so this is essential to introduce younger generations to symphonic music. In Italy, we never had this kind of middle ground, perhaps because of certain snobbish attitudes that still persist today.
CS: Things are moving in the right direction here as well, though: the orchestra ‘La Verdi’ of Milan, for example, is very sensitive to this repertoire and it happens quite often to find film music selections in their programs. The musicians themselves really like playing film music, perhaps because they too have grown up listening to the music of Star Wars, E.T., Indiana Jones, etc. when they were kids. And this kind of music seems to have a very strong emotional resonance towards the younger audience today as well.
EA: Yes. The success of Star Wars was also one of the reasons why Williams was appointed Music Director of the Boston Pops in 1980, which he served as Principal Conductor for 15 seasons. In this post, he also had a pivotal role in popularizing, in the noblest sense of the term, film music repertoire.
CS: Did you find out something new about John Williams and his music writing your book?
EA: I admit that maybe the book can be a bit disappointing for those who expect to read biographical tidbits or anecdotes about his life. I have never conducted a real interview with John Williams. I met him on a couple of occasions and talked broadly of my project. I’m happier if he writes new music rather than waste time talking to me! So from this point of view I didn’t discover great things. Perhaps the only curiosity that came up in one of our talks concerns a film called Story of a Woman, the only project that connects Williams to Italy (it’s a forgotten Italian-American production released briefly in theaters in 1970, ed.). It dates back to "European period” of Williams, when he also worked on Heidi in Germany and Jane Eyre in England. For this film, Williams wrote also a song sung by Ornella Vanoni titled “Uno di qua, l’altra di la”. I was curious to ask him about this film and he told me that the music was recorded in Milan. This is perhaps the only thing that I don’t think I have ever read anywhere else before.
CS: A treat for connoisseurs! It is indeed one of the darkest objects in the filmography of Williams.
EA: Absolutely! He probably do not remember it either...
CS: What were the most interesting and curious aspects for you while writing the book?
EA: First of all, the research I've done on the interviews. I think I've read almost all the interviews Williams has given over the years. I made some interesting archival research in Boston (a city I love very much and I visit every year). I have been for over a month in the archives of the Boston Symphony Orchestra. I consulted all the Boston Pops concert programs from 1972 to today. I was able to compare the programs of Arhur Fiedler’s tenure with those of Williams’, to see how film music was treated and what the evolution was. I realized how much Williams really did for the dissemination of the film repertoire. This chapter was definitely one of those which gave me more satisfaction. Another interesting chapter is devoted to the results of a systematic comparison I made between a handful of comedies and dramas from the 1960s scored by Henry Mancini and a sample of comedies and dramas scored by Williams in the same period. I was interested to note the stylistic differences between the two. I realized how Williams - who at the time was little more than a newcomer - had a personal voice already and a very different style from the "modern" one that was in vogue at the time. We can find already the first traces of neoclassicism in those works.
CS: Sometimes we tend to confuse the purely biographical sketch of an artist with the analysis and the study of his work. How important it is to continue to study John Williams and his music from an academic point of view?
EA: I think the next step to take, as soon as it’s possible to consult the materials, is a thorough musicological study. There is a colleague of mine who is doing a doctorate of musicology in Athens and he’s preparing a thesis on Williams. I learned that there are also a few people working on biographies. Another interesting aspect to study would be Williams as a jazz pianist and arranger, to see how the jazz language affected his film career. Another idea might be to deepen the lesser-known Williams, scores like Stanley & Iris or The Accidental Tourist, which are very different from his most famous works. In short, there is still much work to do.
CS: We sincerely hope that your book will be the first step of a literature devoted to this subject, not only with regard to Williams and his character, but for film music in general.
EA: Film music is a very important genre within the music of the twentieth (and now the twenty-first!) Century and I think it should be studied in these terms. We should begin to create a kind of canon of film music, as we have for the music of all other historical periods. Williams himself, in an interview which is stated in the book, says something very interesting: “What is performed today is maybe only 2% of all the music that has been produced from 1700 to today, so I think there can be a comparable percentage of good music within the repertoire of film music”. I think what we should do is to create a sort of canon, a number of film music pieces that are important, and musically interesting, and that should be consolidated in the standard concert repertoire, trying also to reconstruct the original orchestrations when not available.
CS: Is there any Italian publisher who has shown interest in publishing the book?
EA: Unfortunately, no. In 2006, I wrote to several publishers to test the waters, but none of them ever replied. The Italian market is not very healthy at the moment, so the situation is a bit difficult. The book in English is circulating, so we'll see if there will be someone interested for a possible publication in Italy.